When it comes to demos the Floppy parties really have a name to uphold. Two years ago it was "Feedback" by Triad beating "A quoi ca sert?" by Wrath Design, and last year "Pretending To See The Light" by Fairlight won the competition. This year it was Booze Design's "Industrial Breakdown" gathering the most votes. Here are the reviews of the top 5. In case you have missed the releases, download them from here.

[67] : 06. Mar 2003 23:20   

Oops... Sorry, i accidently refreshed the page, so please forget about Tdj’s second post.

Sander

[68] : 06. Mar 2003 23:41   

This time I will do an expcetion... ...that repetition has some point ;-). *ugly* stays ugly for me too ;-). But anyway I will try to run it at Forever demoshow, let’s see how audience receives the new beautiful ;-))

CreaMD

[69] : 07. Mar 2003 00:03   

Just look at your childhood photos, would you buy the same clothes again? In medieval times women being fat were considered pretty.

Or perhaps those rules don’t apply to people using a 21 years old computer ;)

Sander

[70] : 07. Mar 2003 00:56   

If ugly is the new beautiful, does that mean that the old beautiful is the new ugly?

Mermaid

[71] : 07. Mar 2003 08:16   

You all seem to agree that a demo has to be beautiful. I’d prefer to see more demos that could be described as interesting.

puterman

[72] : 07. Mar 2003 08:17   

very good question by mermaid...:) i personally think the real beautiful is "time indepenedently beautiful"... if something is the "old ugly" and the "new beautiful" then maybe it is "pop corn" waiting to be forgotten...

nightlord

[73] : 07. Mar 2003 11:24   

I agree nightlord, the true beauty is the timeless. I think this applies very well to demos, some demos that are almost 15 years old are still nice to watch today, while some of the new demos would have been awesome in 1990 aswell, but many of the "new style" and "experimental" demos would have gotten a big "WTF is this random crap?"-reaction in 1990.

Shadow/Noice

[74] : 07. Mar 2003 11:43   

I personally, still use some of my childhood clothes that fit on me. I always cry back the ’60s, I adore modern kitsch, Vallejo, Soroyama and socrealism, WD cartoons, although many says they all suck major dick and they’re tasteless.
I ignore the avantgarde, ignore red dots on green canvas that people call "art", I ignore talentless people to be praised just because of their works being "ugly". We live in a world where a pile of shit put on the ground in the form of a star and a cherry in the middle of it could be called "innovative" because there will be always numerous of TDJs who will approve it, and say fine-art and hard work is out of fashion.

But that’s just me, me who would pay more for the bricklayer than the designer of the house. Don’t know. Sometimes it’s sad to see hard working, blood sweating people preceded by dick-limping. Perhaps it hurts so much because I see my parents being at their job 10 hours a day and still live on the edge, or realising myself work my hairy butthole off wide for the everyday bread.

I ignore people that keep telling me what’s that I should like, and what’s that I shouldn’t. I think I have an own brain to decide.

However, I adore to read reviews because most of them perhaps can make my future works change a bit, or hence stick to something even more than before. Yet some of them are only interesting because you get the opportunity to see how other people think about the same thing your mind worked troughout on a completely different way.

I like HCL’s demo because it’s fast and nicely synched to the music, plus for the innovative idea that’s not intented to be, and minus for the ugly design. I like Hollowman’s demo much more, because it’s tasty and smooth, minus for the lack of concept, although demo-making for the love of it is a very fine, to-appreciated concept on it’s own. It wasn’t boring for me, infact I keep running it on my c64 for quite a while now, even people that have no clue about c64 said it’s rulez.

And if you still think ugly is the new beautiful, just go and marry one.

Jailbird

[75] : 07. Mar 2003 12:17   

You know what? I’m through defending myself here - I made my case, I explicitly stated that at least half of my top 10 favorite demos are technical demos, and if people like Jailbird etc. still want to take my words out of context and make it seem like I only appreciate concept demos no matter how ugly they are, so be it. I’m not going to get riled up about it, I have more important things to do with my time.

If people want to have a good, healthy discussion about demos I’m all up for it. But not like this. This is exactly the reason why we wanted to leave the scene a few years ago. Not because we thought we didn’t have anything to contribute, but because of people constantly attacking us for having a different opinion.

Tdj

[76] : 07. Mar 2003 14:03   

people like Jailbird etc. still want to take my words out of context and make it seem like I only appreciate concept demos no matter how ugly they are

I realise my drawback by TDJ showing his mighty back to me, but just to make it clear, please.
People like Jailbird etc. just can’t remember taking your words out of context and make it seem you only appreciate concept demos.
Makes me wonder what are you talking about.
I can’t realise why is one feel attacked when another is bringing up different options and views. I never attacked you or said or meant by any of my sentence something like you suck or that your words mean as much as a fart in the wind, because I do adore everything you, or the whole Focus produced till now. I find your reviews interesting and therefore I enjoy them very much.

I expressed how I look on things, I told my ideas. Now if someone feels like attacked and want to quit the scene, please take my sincere apologies and consider my words as a production of a very humble mind that are not worth to get upset by them, especially not worth to leave the scene. No and I’m not even ironic.

Seems I just can’t learn, as I promised to myself that I’ll concentrate much more on my works than to argue on forums about the super sweet nothing.

And really for the end, excuse moa for having an opinion of the average.

It rhymes to nerd

[77] : 07. Mar 2003 14:31   

I’m not going to leave the scene because of this - I just said that in the past such things made me consider doing that. These days it doesn’t make me mad anymore, guess that’s because I already took my distance.

As for your wondering what I was talking about, let me quote you: ’We live in a world where a pile of shit put on the ground in the form of a star and a cherry in the middle of it could be called "innovative" because there will be always numerous of TDJs who will approve it, and say fine-art and hard work is out of fashion.’ Now, maybe I’m a bit too sensitive, but that looks like an attack to me ;)

Shit is shit, no matter what, but just because something is not as good looking as you’d expect, doesn’t automatically mean it’s shit. Consider my musical taste I love the Beatles, I love Velvet Underground. Beatleas = mainstream, Velvet Underground = different. I like them both. It’s not black/white.

Finally, I don’t have any problems with you or other people not sharing my point of view. My taste just changed over the years, and it probably will continue to do so in the future, but that doesn’t mean that I feel that what I left behind is ’wrong’. I respect you and others for ’having an opinion of the average’ (not-so-average anyway, because how many people do like c64 demos, period?) but please, respect me for thinking differently. In the end, like I said before, all I do is express my opinion, I’m not here to win souls or to make people see my way.

Tdj

[78] : 07. Mar 2003 17:07   

As for your wondering what I was talking about, let me quote you: ’We live in a world where a pile of shit put on the ground in the form of a star and a cherry in the middle of it could be called "innovative" because there will be always numerous of TDJs who will approve it, and say fine-art and hard work is out of fashion.’ Now, maybe I’m a bit too sensitive, but that looks like an attack to me ;) No, it really seems to me like you approve, not appreciate, but approve anything that’s innovative, whether it looks good or not, have a lot of work behind it or trown together in no-time... The sentence you quoted I mean global, not addressing you directly, even though I mention you - it’s covering the idea that I don’t like something just because it’s plain innovative.
I admit I was too harsh, sorry, and believe me I didn’t meant to attack you in any way, all the more as I, from all of my heart, either respect your opinions and the way you make your very own roads on the scene.

Then again. Who thinks Hollowman failed on Loaded should raise his hand.
One?.. No more? Thank you.

Oh and by the way. I get your point, but wait, Beatles and mainstream? Perhaps some decades ago. Most of people tend to look on me like I’m an idiot when I tell ’em I like Bill Haley, The Pretenders or Abba :)

Jailbird

[79] : 07. Mar 2003 17:29   

Well, if it seems that way, so be it, but it’s not like that. I like HCL’s demo because it gave me a thrill, something that doesn’t happen too often anymore. And part of the reason I liked it was because it was different.

Oh, and Abba? Like they say in the english sitcoms: "do you have a boyfriend, then?" :)

Tdj

[80] : 08. Mar 2003 08:49   

Most of the time I have problems to digest modern art especially because most of the time innovators don’t know what they are doing. Check the "Hollywood Ending" movie ;-))

CreaMD

[81] : 10. Mar 2003 15:44   

As always, i’m a bit late into the discussion.. Graham, unfortunately this demo wasn’t ment for you and i’m not at all surprised that you don’t like it. But agree with me when i say that DeeKay’s 200h-pixeling pictures wouldn’t have made Ind.Brk. any better. Personally i think that those wired pictures fit the whole thing just perfectly. I don’t say it’s beautiful. But as the technical coder i am, i couldn’t let go without including one or two *possibly impressing* effects, just for the satisfaction of people like you and me. You should be able to find them. Or you can as well follow the instructions in the note: Fuck off and wait for the next *very normal* demo. For the real discussion, i’d like to add a few words. Yes, i got all the possible feedback i could ever wish in this review, but don’t think that’s always the case for me. When you make a demo, you’re not only relasing some bytes. You’re taking part of the scene, and you have to coop with it’s reactions. If you can’t stand that someone lets you down, you should start doing something else. Yes, i also think that those who don’t like my demos are idiots, just read my comment to Graham above. So just tell it and forget it. TDJ just wrote the best point: "if demo-reviews are useless, all reactions to a demo are useless.."

HCL