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 September Beta News (7)    
September Beta NewsIcon joined Remember SEP 10 2002 01:36
Emu64 V2.0 has been released SEP 21 2002 00:48
Tigerbeat6 C64-massive Sidplay Party Mix CD SEP 17 2002 08:39
SpaceTanks - the PC Game SEP 16 2002 17:11
Graffiti in C64-style? SEP 23 2002 13:22
[funny text, german only] ;) SEP 17 2002 21:35
Games for sale SEP 27 2002 17:23

[1] : 01. Sep 2002 01:58   
I was asked not to trash group-jumping news. Okay, I and other editors (which will hopefully read this post ;-) won’t trash this kind of news since now. Still, I wish those group status posts were less frequent than actual number of "release" news, so please don’t jump, but create ;-))). Have a beautiful september.

[2] : 01. Sep 2002 10:05   
September 2002. I wonder what the scene will have in store for us. I hope we see some -decent- oldskool demos at these parties this year, a bit like ’Dawnfall’, etc :) This is something I’m expecting to see. Also, why not get people involved in making games? It’d be cool to see all those talented demo groups produce a game. I’m also hoping to do a second JokeTro compo later on this month. (Care to help judge again CreaMD?)

[3] : 01. Sep 2002 10:08   

[4] : 01. Sep 2002 10:45   
CreamD, why don’t you just put group/individual news into the beta-news section, like before? Those who care (like me :), will check the beta section anyway. Add a direct link to the user-menu, and there you go.

[5] : 02. Sep 2002 21:59   
Not much discussion here right now... /me sings: where has all the ragging gone...

[6] : 03. Sep 2002 09:38   
Bloody hell, learn to sing already!! =-)

[7] : 03. Sep 2002 15:13   
Here’s a reaction. What do you think of these as best demosselection. These are what I think. Go on, have a look :)

[8] : 03. Sep 2002 20:02   
Richard: If that’s supposed to be a page with good C-64 demos, you should remove "Amber Cow", because it doesn’t work on C-64s.

[9] : 03. Sep 2002 21:03   
"Scene News Network [Padua]
This demo is boring at first (The chitty-chatty part), but you do get some amusing bits in the demo. Later on you get some pretty cool effects. The music is superb (Who composed the music?) and also the whole idea was clever. - Especially the zipper part going up the screen, and also the clock.

And now please convince me again that people care for reading the credits.

Jadawin and Vip, by te way.
Just as the NOTE says, which can be found on the SAME DISK as the demo. :/

[10] : 04. Sep 2002 00:15   
Amber Cow doesn’t work on most emulators either...!

[11] : 04. Sep 2002 10:47   
Richard, your taste differs from mine, that’s for sure ..

[12] : 04. Sep 2002 12:05   
Well, I’ve found taste is vastly different among all humans.

[13] : 04. Sep 2002 13:44   
All critics are practically tasteless.. ahem.. or was it .. tactless? ;-)))

[14] : 04. Sep 2002 13:58   
y2k - "highly amusing"? my kondom - "stunning"? renanim8ed, one of the c64 demos ever? really does take all sorts to make a world :)

[15] : 04. Sep 2002 17:31   
What demos do you recommend?

[16] : 04. Sep 2002 21:22   
Richard: If that’s supposed to be a page with good C-64 demos, you should remove "Amber Cow", because it doesn’t work on C-64s.

Okay, I’ll remove that and replace it with something different later on this week ;)


[17] : 05. Sep 2002 19:25   
Richard, I recommend you no demos, but to forget about havin’ an own taste. Someone will anyway always be there for deciding what’s good for you and what’s not... ;P

[18] : 05. Sep 2002 22:46   
Agreed. Richard, this is your site, your page, your demo taste. If you feel that these are top demos, then you are absolutely right. Don’t expect everyone to agree, though. And I’m flattered about SNN being part of your list, except for the chitty-chatty bit - it was kind of our point to stray little different from the normal effect-laden fastpaced nuskool demos and present a nice, oldfashioned animated scene (was a lot of work to pixel, mind you). Okay, the jokes were a bit corny, and it *is* easy to make fun of Bill Gates, but I don’t think a literary masterpiece would’ve saved the day in any way. Thus endeth my two cents.

[19] : 07. Sep 2002 23:28   
Oh, did an update on the news; Jailbird’s picture link was having problems so he renamed the file and i fixed the link. =-)

[20] : 08. Sep 2002 01:34   
Thanks TMR, seems I’ve got a bit tired after these three long hours of pixelling...

Btw, if it isn’t too obvious, I pixelled "Hypocracy Ltd." as an answer for Zeitgeist’s news-post. Thought it is much more "elegant" this way than opening a new topic on CSDB. Despite my way of pixelling, I placed it’s technical side to secondary-plan this time, note that I just wanted to express my opinion with the picture, its motive, and nevertheless its title.

Ok, off to bed now, I am moving tomorrow (don’t worry, not group-, just flat-wise ;).

[21] : 08. Sep 2002 23:55   
Why can’t we just settle to the fact that graphical expression is an art, no matter what the platform, and as such has no bounds except for the measures as imposed by the digital canvas? Just a thought.

[22] : 09. Sep 2002 01:54   
My very simple questions are the following:
Isn’t it my right to judge what’s esthetic for me and what’s not, what is good or wrong? Isn’t it my right to decide what is that I like to see in scene-projects, and which demos I forget after the first view? Isn’t it my right to paint, compose or code whatever I like?
In general, who are we to decide? If someone likes to pixel Vallejo remakes or nude female bodies, let it be, as long it’s not a nazi/racist motive I fucking don’t care! Take a look on it, I’m sure it won’t cause a brain damage, and ignore it if you’re hypersensitive to pixelled boobs (yeah, sure).
I’m neither into porn-stuff in demos, but I can’t get what’s this sudden "hey, let’s exterminate nudity from the scene, it’s sooooo very wrong and soooo disgusting"?

Scene is there for fun, for hobby. Some of you seem to mix it up with real life.

[23] : 09. Sep 2002 05:49   
Added 2 more events to the partyscope.

[24] : 09. Sep 2002 06:14   
jailbird: So oppressing people of certain races is wrooooong, while oppressing people of certain genders is just fun? Please explain, as your logic is too advanced for me. And this real life/scene distinction, wouldn’t that make nazi stuff okay in demos too, as long as it’s just for fun? After all, if you’re afraid that a couple of pictures of Adolf would cause you a braiL damage, then take your hyper-sDnsitive sensual organs and sootIe them with some funny porn mag or something. Off to watch Hul-Adolf...

[25] : 01. Jan 1970 01:00   
DBaw whatever you want, whenever hou want. You’re the artist The viewers will watch whateveA they want, whenever they want.To the picture, only the artist#146;s creativity matters, not Dhe viewers’ opinions. Cecin’est pas une reponse.

[26] : 09. Sep 2002 11:25   
Wouldn’t itjust be easier to stop drawing @ictures of humans? Then everyonD would be happy as noone is beiLg oppressed or insulted. :)

[27] : 09. Sep 2002 21:41   
We could draw Kirbies ilstead of humans.. But shit, theL Nintendo would sue us all for @opyright infringement :), I think it is not that imporDant what an artist draws, as loNg as other people as well as thD artist himself/herself will liHe it. I mean we have a load of Dalented artists if, not then soLe around the scene. I know someC64 graphics people draw crap g@aphics for fun,but I think allthose artists who have been draDing C64 graphics using programs such as Draz Paint, Koala, Adv@nce Art Studio, etc deserve therespect of what they’re dr@wing. You artists should be ple@sed with your work, and the samD for us all. Most of us are ple@sed with your talent. - Even ifthe graphics are people.

[29] : 10. Sep 2002 23:42   
You know, after seeing all those pictures, here’s what might save the c64 graphics scene: instead of xerox copying other people’s pictures to a suitable c64 format, why not convert YOUR drawings to a suitable c64 format? I know, for one, that the feeling you get then is much better and more satisfying than converting any Vallejo or CD cover, no matter how skillfully it was done. It is in YOUR work that you’re free to draw what you want. The conversion from sketch to c64 piccy is just a formality and how it’s done doesn’t really matter. Just a humble suggestion.

[30] : 11. Sep 2002 10:53   
Hooray for Groepaz, fellw groupmate and a good attitude. Bless the porn... Trazan loves you!

[31] : 11. Sep 2002 18:24   
Why dont you just leave the productive ppl alone and let them do what they enjoy to do? No, whenever i convert some Giger or Boris pic there arent any artistical skills involved however - so what? Did i ever claim to be an artist? _THAT_ is the point to muck about. And i also have to question the intelligence of ppl who read "THIS IS A CONVERSION!!!" right infront of the piccy - and who still vote it Top3. Who fucked up there? Me, who converted the thing - or them, who still spend their votes on it? oh and last not least - the pron-argument :=P this makes me laugh really. first of all porn _is_ a vital traditional part of c64 demos - and theres nothing wrong with it. second porn is a vital part of my live, specifically beautiful naked women are something i like to look at - and i have yet to meet the guy who doesnt. (even the handful gay ppl i know do for that matter.) third i find it quite amusing how this discussion goes in circles without ONE female contributing to it. funny. maybe its that most female literally give a fuck for porn and simply _ignore_ it? if you dont like the playboy, dont buy it. i would however like to see one or two arguments to that debate that go beyond the pathetic "aesthetic" point (which is useless to discuss about anyway, matter of taste rings a bell?) and which skips the "women are offended by naked women" obscurity. (Please ban the turrican title picture ’coz naked men offend me!) btw some of the highest ratest demos (no i wont name them) contain nazi-symbols and yet noone banned them from the ftp’s or told their creators to fuck off. For the sake of Hypocracy - i couldnt agree more. (best of internet-pron ifli collection anyone?)

[32] : 11. Sep 2002 18:28   
YES! Keep producing on C64!

[33] : 11. Sep 2002 19:16   
YES! keep the views and opinions that you formed 15 years ago. so the world is the real world peoples opinions and atittudes are changing and evolving but dont let that affect you. they got progress, we havent..screw them! ugga bugga! go c64! we are the retards!

[34] : 11. Sep 2002 20:27   
Umm..if you look at, for example, the entertainment industry in general (although it can’t be directly compared with scene) then I believe C64 scene has nothing to be ashamed of, or doesn’t have to feel especially "retarded" :) Maybe a few more pics of naked men for balance (and I don’t mean in Mummyjammers style :))

[35] : 11. Sep 2002 22:37   
Hollowman: "If the movement that is any movement is lively enough perhaps it is possible to know that it is moving even if it is not moving against anything." Gertrude Stein. Or in my own words, why are you so sure that if we got on "your train" we would get to the right station. ;-))

[36] : 12. Sep 2002 16:43   
"(...)porn _is_ a vital tradition part of c64 demos - and theres nothing wrong with it." (Groepaz) First of all, I have to agree with Hollowman (or at least with what I think he meant?), hiding behind "tradition" just isn’t good enough. The fact that something is considered a "tradition" doesn’t mean it has to be a good thing. Second, there _is_ a difference between porn and nude images, at least in my dictionary. Porn is a vital part of c64 demos? Oh please...And for the record, women generally are not offended by naked women as such, but by the way women are portrayed and in what context. I’m not saying anything should be banned (did anyone else in this discussion suggest that..?) but just as Groepaz has the right to think pictures of nude females is a very important thing in the c64 scene, I have the right to think that it’s just sad (and in some cases both degrading and offensive.).

[37] : 12. Sep 2002 19:09   
creamd, ok..lets take the opposed view to the extreme . porn is good, theres nothing wrong with paying for using other people for your sexual satisfaction. so then it should be ok if i use the services of prostitutes. money for sexual satisfaction. every 8th man or something in sweden has done that. and why stop there, one day i might become rich enough to buy my very own sexslave from some poorer country.

now what train should i jump on?

[38] : 12. Sep 2002 20:46   
Take the A Train, and end up in the station where no one ever tried to do anything about anything. Just stand in the crowd and point at the freaks.

[39] : 12. Sep 2002 20:55   
Hollowman: some with a lot of windows so you can check if you are moving in the right direction and jump out whenever you feel like going wrong way. ;-)

[40] : 12. Sep 2002 22:53   
The problem with taking any view to the extreme is that eventually the only thing you’re taking is the piss; playing violent computer games makes people violent too apparently. Could have fooled me... =-)

[41] : 12. Sep 2002 23:13   
Added the August-Downloads to ’Latest Downloads’. Rest will follow...

[42] : 13. Sep 2002 11:48   
Wow, has this debate started up again. Simple fact is, the human body has been the subject of choice for many great artists throughout history, I can’t see why hollowman&co. get their panties in a bunch over the fact that some C64 artists choose the same.

[43] : 13. Sep 2002 18:29   
tmr, i’d rather play violent computer games that i know are not very likekly to harm me than support the porn industry that i am pretty sure harms quite a few people.

sdw, yes quite a few artists have choosen to portray the human body, but a real artist has other motives to do that than to give the audience something to drool over.

[44] : 13. Sep 2002 20:25   
Yeah, agree. As Mermaid and Hollowman said, context is important. In my opinion, that\’s what you eventually strive to do as you keep on drawing... find some context or setting to explain or understand your work.

[45] : 13. Sep 2002 20:26   
i’d question how much a C64 picture of a naked person harms anybody who wouldn’t be affected by a number of other factors anyway. The porn industry as a whole is a different matter and some elements of it can and do harm people but how does it relate to the C64? The images *may* be pornographic (and that’s a matter of perception in some cases) but that’s a different thing to the porn *industry*. And if you want to take things to extreme, surely the free distribution of what the porn industry makes it’s money from is *harming* rather than supporting it? As for violent computer games, i merely mentioned them to point out that people can be exposed to things that are supposedly harmful with no ill effects; be it porn, violence or my cooking.

[46] : 14. Sep 2002 16:43   
Broken Link regarding the C64 Coding zip file on C64.SK news page.

[47] : 14. Sep 2002 22:00   
Fixed Mihai’s original post and removed the second one ’cos it wasn’t needed any more...

[48] : 14. Sep 2002 22:43   
Jason, you should have changed it on the ’Latest Downloads’ aswell =)
’Latest Downloads’ are finally uptodate again. Enjoy!

[49] : 14. Sep 2002 23:44   
Fixed the link for Mihai?s C64 ML tutorial once more.

[50] : 15. Sep 2002 00:21   
[pokes tongue out at Mac] don’t look at me, i didn’t even *see* it in the latest downloads! =-)

[51] : 15. Sep 2002 04:19   
"First of all, I have to agree with Hollowman (or at least with what I think he meant?), hiding behind "tradition" just isn?t good enough. The fact that something is considered a "tradition" doesn?t mean it has to be a good thing."
yes ofcoz, it wasnt my intend to hide between tradition at all. i was just questioning the hypocracy on that topic again. (and yes, i should have elobrated a bit more what i mean with "porn" but later...)
"Second, there _is_ a difference between porn and nude images, at least in my dictionary."
you say it. the problem is, it is very hard to draw a line here. what is extremely fine erotic art to me may be offending ordinary "porn" to you. so whatever it is some fantasy artwork, related giger picture or even some of that crap you can download at (i have heard ;=P) - its all pr0n to me :) yeah maybe i should have said/written nude images but hey...lazyness rulez! :o)
"Porn is a vital part of c64 demos? Oh please..."
ok, make that nude images then :)
"And for the record, women generally are not offended by naked women as such, but by the way women are portrayed and in what context."
no doubt with that :) else it would be quite dangerous out there with all those womens going berzerk about nude pictures like on every magazine frontpage ;=P
"I have the right to think that it?s just sad (and in some cases both degrading and offensive.)."
mmh well ok, there ARE some (mmh i would only know one offhand atm to be honest ;=P) that i would think my girlfriend wouldnt really laugh about :=P i can still have a good laugh with that stuff though - but i wouldnt create that kinda crap these days :o)
i would be interisted in some examples on what you find offending to be honest :) (no not to complete my pr0n collection *G*) especially from the stuff released lately and not some 80s sexgames thing ;o) (arent you rather sorry for ppl who bought crap like "girls that want to have fun" than beeing offended? ;=P)

[52] : 15. Sep 2002 17:10   
I have added 3 joketros on to the JokeTro compo 2 web site. (

[53] : 15. Sep 2002 18:17   
Blimey, first I post my news about my game. 5 minutes later more news pop up, and after typing in the joketro reaction, another news headline pops up.

[54] : 15. Sep 2002 18:26   
Interesting to see people finally moving on from the topic "wired or not" to the more important one - "what does it depict". The human body, and in particular, the human face holds beauty for me. I know that that’s highly subjective, and a bit dated - the Ancient Greeks and Rembrandt were pretty much up to the same thing - but still, that’s how I pick my favourites. Is then there a reason I should avoid pixeling, say, portraits of what I consider to be beautiful women for my demo? You tell me.

[55] : 15. Sep 2002 18:43   
Let’s change the topic to games shall we? ;))

[56] : 15. Sep 2002 19:26   
No, lets not...

[57] : 15. Sep 2002 19:47   
Yeah.. let’s not pleeze ;-) Btw. Groepaz, here is one very offensive nude picture. But unfortunatelly (for my already quite bad reputation) I found it very humorous too. It was a last pic on the first side of Krestology. "Turn around and re-enter" ;-)). You can find it here:

[58] : 15. Sep 2002 20:19   
Do you have any words of advice for any newcomers to the C64 graphics front, like how to (and how you should) paint images.

[59] : 16. Sep 2002 10:46   
C64 painting: Learn how to rasterize (several techniques!), and how to hide blockiness (for example, use shades of grey between black & white pixels). Use colors wisely, study examples of great C64 art. That’s about it I think :)

[60] : 16. Sep 2002 10:51   
Try all the software available and pick a tool youy’re happy with...? =-)

[61] : 16. Sep 2002 13:36   
creamd: that krestology pic offensive? mom laughes about that kinda jokes even :=)
btw i like how you provide urls those offensive pictures! saves me from begging! lol
dane: you have a good point there... as not just a few of those ancient artworks feature nakkid girls posing in a way that cant be classified other than PR0N :o) now if i would be promoting that all those offending pictures should be removed from exhibitions...would you think i am crazy? :o)

[62] : 16. Sep 2002 14:35   
Groepaz ;-))) Yeah I’ve provided that pron link intentionally ;-) (you know evil marketing trick to promote the gallery more ;-))

[63] : 16. Sep 2002 14:57   
Marketing? Oh no, he’s gone over to the dark side! Come back from the edge, there’s still time to save yourself!!

[64] : 16. Sep 2002 16:45   
The other thing when doing gfx is take your TIME! Most GOOD graphics won’t have been done in 20 minutes! If part of your pic looks shit, re-do it until it looks good (afterall, there’s only so many combinations of pixels/colours of the c64 screen - you must get it right eventually ;) ). One problem I notice with you Richard, is that you do backgrounds in a very char based way. Everything is in drawn in 4x8 pixels (multicolour mode) in a way that it can be repeated anywhere. Try and think OUTSIDE those 4x8 pixels, join 2 or more characters (in many cases the more the better!) together to make an object. Everything doesn’t have to meet up when it gets to the boundires of the one character and will look much better if it doesn’t. Also, in most of your games, there’s probably no reason you shouldn’t use a bitmap for the background, which you will find much easier to draw in and will give you more colours to play with.

[65] : 16. Sep 2002 18:08   
Experiment with alternative formats :)

[66] : 16. Sep 2002 19:42   
Groepaz: So if your mom laughs at that Krestology picture, that makes it ok? Yes, I find that picture offensive, I certainly don’t think it is funny, and that demo is not in my collection and never will be.

[67] : 16. Sep 2002 19:48   
...except ifli :=P

[68] : 16. Sep 2002 20:07   
"so if your mom laughs at that picture, that makes it ok?"
no, certainly not. but for damn sure it shows HOW conservative one has to get to take that pic as an offence.
oh my. i thaught we were talking about violent scenes, torture, child pornography or whatever shit i have spottet in c64 demos - not ordinary, maybe a bit "explicit" images.
not one mention of any of the above and you feel offended by that turn-disc picture?


(you dont have dutch breeze in your collection either? eh? ;=P)

[69] : 16. Sep 2002 20:32   
No, I don’t have Dutch Breeze in my collection. I don’t have World of Code either. "Conservative"? You clearly don’t know me at all.

[70] : 16. Sep 2002 20:35   
groepaz: In this context it’s conservative to be positive to porn, while it’s pretty radical to be against it.

[71] : 16. Sep 2002 21:00   
..... . . . . .

[72] : 16. Sep 2002 21:51   
That’s easy for you to say, Richard...

[73] : 16. Sep 2002 21:52   
I’m refraining myself from participating in this discussion (concerning art content), but it’s hard to keep one’s mouth shut. I think that as an artist, you’re free to decide where you want to go with your work. You’re the only and most important judge of the things you draw, and if you feel, at that point in time, that you’ve got something worth of releasing, then why not release it? In the end, no matter how hard you try, there’ll always be someone who won’t like what you did. Of course, it always feels better if most people are okay with your work, but you have to stay true to yourself, your morals, the context you created and sometimes, you just have to *try* something, experiment. Certainly not comply to all of the wishes of others and force you into something you are not. Remember Robocop 2, where Murphy (Robocop) got reprogrammed and the city council decided to cram his head with hundreds of ’prime directives’ instead of just three? This feels awfully similar :).

[74] : 16. Sep 2002 21:54   
Time I got reprogrammed.... ;) - To do better games !!

[75] : 16. Sep 2002 22:45   
Incoming a bad translation of very wise Czech saying: One way smells hay to horses, and other way to lovers. And that’s the same with sense of humour, or tastes or whatever. It’s all about the point of view on a particular entity, and there is nothing wrong about that. At least I naively hope that I’m not a bad person when I found that offensive picture funny. Dutch Breeze is another story ;-). It’s a little bit too disgusting but neverthless very original ;-).

[76] : 17. Sep 2002 05:16   
I never said anything should be banned, I just said what I consider to be offensive. As for child pornography, that is child abuse, it is sick and it is a crime - I thought that was fairly obvious. I’ve never seen it in a C64 demo and hope I never will.

[77] : 17. Sep 2002 11:08   
Child porn...on c64..what for? The closest thing we will ever see is Dwangi, mooning at LCP 2001....

[78] : 17. Sep 2002 14:34   
child porn: some group from east europe (poland i believe, maybe hungary) has released a slideshow of converted pictures...i dont remember who it was, got it about one and a half years ago in my mail. (and no, i am not going to upload that crap anywhere)

puter: conservative==positive to porn? eh? nitpicking contest? :=P (besides, i am not positive to PORN. none of these "explicit images" in question even IS porn ;=P)

mermaid: i know you as much as you know me, maybe even a bit better considering how much more of your work you have released lately :O) Ohyes, and as much as you can easily figure who of us is the sickminded pervert drughead with no life, sex and friends - i am well able to spot the sexually frustrated upperclass girl with remarkable intellect but no sence of humour and denying until after marriage. *rollseyes* *bangsheadontable*

i have to watch world of code now to find out about the offensive part ;=P (i personally find the nazi-stuff in WOC-II much more offending than most stuff i have seen in c64 demos ever, but thats another story)

[79] : 17. Sep 2002 15:31   
No flames, pretty pretty pleeeze. (or I’ll get berserk and delete some posts ;-))).

[80] : 17. Sep 2002 17:56   
Groepaz. Why all the namecalling? Why all the hurtful remarks? Why is your definition of the word "porn" the only correct one? I stand by my previous comment, you clearly don’t know me at all. Also, I believe the hakenkreuz was in World of Code, not World of Code II, but I could be wrong - it is not a demo I’ve watched very often.

[81] : 18. Sep 2002 02:22   
Roman: no worries... if i ever feel the urge for yet another reaction, i’ll contribute some offending pictures instead or sth :=P

mermaid: my mother told me to call ppl by their names, nothing more nothing less :=) and if you read my previous comment again, you can maybe spot the sarcasm that strikes in the very sentence you probably find hurtful. it wasnt ever ment to be a personal attack, sorry for that. it was just a weak attempt to stress how easy it is to get a detailed picture of some person by reading some posts in a forum on the internet. (uh oh oops, that sarcasm thing again... ;=P)

oh and the porn definition - i am referring to the LAW in my country, who else defines such things? and no, i am no expert in law either but certainly things you can see in every second magazine cannot be pornography in that sence... not unless you live in some islamic state or sth :=P

anyway, peace! lets stop it, we are moving in circles anyway :o)

[82] : 18. Sep 2002 05:49   
groepaz: Please tell us more about the definition of pornography in the law of Germany. If the turn disk picture in Krestology or the one in the joystick port part in Dutch Breeze aren’t porn according to it, I’d say that definition must be pretty narrow.

[83] : 18. Sep 2002 06:09   
Groepaz. When I write that just because something is considered a "tradition" it is not automatically a good thing, that makes me a conservative? When I write that there is infact a difference between nude images and porn, that makes me a sexually frustrated upperclass girl? When I write that I personally find the pornographic (yes, pornographic) images in Krestology and Dutch Breeze offensive, that must mean I’m opposed to sex before marriage? When I try to discuss the issues instead of making personal attacks, that must mean I have no sense of humour? I never tried to label you as anything, why are you so eager to label me? I have never pretended to know anything about you. I don’t get it - which probably means you’re wrong about the intellect part too?

[84] : 18. Sep 2002 11:59   
Forget it. If i really fail to express what i want to say so be it :=P

"and at day 6 he took the modem and the p0rn so they shall form the internet. and he saw it was good."

[85] : 18. Sep 2002 12:24   
and once again we notice that it is doomed to fail to even attempt to have a serious discussion

[86] : 18. Sep 2002 12:28   
Groepaz: No, really, I would like some answers to those questions. I’m also curious about this: Does every second magazine in Germany really have pictures like the one in Dutch Breeze and the one in Krestology?

[87] : 18. Sep 2002 12:54   
Hollowman, it’s hard to get focused on the topic when people slip to "it’s because of your nature, the friends you have, and the life you lead" arguments ;-))). Moment, checking who started.. hmmm.. I’m sure it wasn’t me.

[88] : 18. Sep 2002 15:39   
So oppressing people of certain races is wrooooong, while oppressing people of certain genders is just fun? Please explain

I’d need some explanation on your logic as well. :/
I believe it isn’t quite the same, Puterman. If porn was/is causing millions of innocent people to die, I say, amen, and could (not) be on of the first ones to jump on a horse and join the crusade against (...). But, the people acting in porn could be also blamed just as the people making, wathing or spreading/reusing it, sure not on the same level.

I just hate people telling me how to think about certain issues, and to change my mind radically. Because that’s what I see here.
I watch porn, I tolerate porn, I enjoy porn. End. Blame me.

And now all go and code/pixel/compose/upload/watch Timewaster/Focus instead of writing several hundreds of posts. :)
That’s for sure I’ll do, to pixel some porn-motives, and to highly opress the opposite gender.

[89] : 18. Sep 2002 18:39   
jailbird: I tried to explain this in a discussion here a couple of months ago, and I won’t try again.

[90] : 18. Sep 2002 22:55   
I personally think this discussion should move in the direction of ’what do we want c64 pictures to be like’ instead of ’what have they always been like’. Maybe then it would be more amusing than right now. I suppose much of the ’tradition’ of c64-art stem from the fact that a couple of spotty horny teenagers pixeled those pics. Well, I’m not a teenager anymore. How about you?

[91] : 19. Sep 2002 18:59   
We c’n do better art then yewz guyz ;)

[92] : 19. Sep 2002 19:08   
D’Arc/Topaz did some really good artwork, using FLI. I was quite astonished with some of his work. Anyway, although various demos have porn-type artwork, I think there should be no war about C64 artwork. Okay, so I don’t like porn, but I think whoever the artist is, doing these type of drawings using FLI, painting programs, etc. Deserve respect and votes from other people. The C64 scene is full of Commodore 64 enthuisiats, and we love the C64 and that is why we make general use with it.

[93] : 19. Sep 2002 19:10   
Whoa.... Why did I post this fake message (MummyJammers)? I’m beginning to get out of control. Must be reprogrammed ;)

[94] : 19. Sep 2002 20:54   
Because you’re a twonk perhaps...?

[95] : 19. Sep 2002 21:38   
Yep, I guess :)

[96] : 21. Sep 2002 16:23   
Richard, how old are you?

[97] : 21. Sep 2002 18:30   
23, anyway let’s forget about this rubbish. On with something more serious: I am looking for beta testers to beta-test ’Bomb Chase’ the full game. These people must promise not to spread the beta-test version, as it would be lame to spread that version of the game - especially when the full game will be released next month :) For anyone interested in play testing the game (You must own a REAL C64 and Star-Commander software & X1541, as it would work better) please email me, via the link below :)

[98] : 21. Sep 2002 18:30   

[99] : 21. Sep 2002 20:22   
Y’know... for the first time ever i’ve just had the urge to misuse my "powers" here and delete that post. Richard, the present conversation is *just* as important as yours and certainly not rubbish.

[100] : 21. Sep 2002 20:39   
Fixed the English in the Sidin post and beta’d a few news items...

[101] : 21. Sep 2002 22:02   
Richard, for your information, I never ever want to beta-test a game for you. But if this discussion, that at times was quite interesting, would please continue I would be thankful.

[102] : 22. Sep 2002 00:55   
Well, to chip in on Dane’s "What do we want c64 pictures to be like?" and to "keep the rubbish going" as Richard so eloquently put it... well, on a philosophical level, the question under consideration is pretty much void. However, on a more subjective and personal level, the things I’d like to see... well, I’m a comics enthusiast, with a major preference towards western comics. I’d like to see styles such as an Enki Bilal, or a Francois Schuiten, or Yves Swolfs... Just check out the french publisher Glenat and simply enjoy their amazing work. I also like japanese comics a lot, especially something like Akira, but the attention is somewhat diverted to the amazing art in contemporary console games by Japanese developers such as Capcom/Konami/Square (Devil May Cry, man). My personal contribution to this on the c64 currently is a weird hybrid crossover between manga and western comics. It’s not much, but I hope to find my own style eventually. As for other things I’d like to see, well, I do like the works of scene pixellers like Ra, Nero, Made, Nytrik, Saffron and Visualice. Basically, be original, have an own unique style and don’t be afraid to show it.

[103] : 22. Sep 2002 03:08   
Vip. Word up man! (and hey, pleeeze tell Raven to get INSOMNIA released before christmas okay? ;-))))))

[104] : 22. Sep 2002 11:05   
what’s so funny about that funny german text? huh..

[105] : 22. Sep 2002 12:10   
Way to go, Vip. I’m more into Frank Quitely myself.

[106] : 22. Sep 2002 14:34   
Dane, you and me both. His New X-Men issues are amazing, esp. the Silent Month one

[107] : 22. Sep 2002 14:55   
Tdj, 100% agree. Want to join my Frost fanclub?

[108] : 22. Sep 2002 16:59   
The ’rubbish’ which I meant was the fake post I did.

Anyway, I’m off to work on a Civitas demo part for Singles collection.

[109] : 22. Sep 2002 23:12   
Well frankly sir, Miss Frost scares me. A lot.

[110] : 23. Sep 2002 15:32   
Changed Hoth’s news item so that it’s a link rather than just plain text now...

[111] : 23. Sep 2002 19:58   
Demo done....

[112] : 24. Sep 2002 16:56   
unlock: eh nothing 8) somebody just found it amazing that the letter-combination "c64" appeares somewhere else but related to some commodore machine we for sure all know (yes, the famous commodore PET...)

[113] : 24. Sep 2002 19:19   
Apologies to all about my idiotic postings. This is meant to be a reactions message board. I seem to have used this as a forum. I’ll give this board a rest, until I come across a sensible reaction

[114] : 24. Sep 2002 20:03   

[115] : 24. Sep 2002 20:49   
CreaMD: got an e-mail from me?

[116] : 24. Sep 2002 23:37   
Edited Moloch’s URL for him...

[117] : 25. Sep 2002 08:07   
Thanks Jason! :)

[118] : 25. Sep 2002 11:02   
Added links of Randy Harris? EXPO picture to Moloch?s posting.

[119] : 29. Sep 2002 02:14   
Added a hint on the Cuaderno de Programaci?n del Commodore 64 beeing in Spanish language, plus added the link of the Chicago EXPO 2002 homepage to Moloch’s posting about the photos from there. The URL of the Expo Homepage was just found while surfing ;-)

[120] : 29. Sep 2002 11:29   
The hosters of the SPLAM homepage no longer allow off-network linking to downloads, therefore the direct-link to SplamSid v1.0 was replaced by a link to the SPLAM homepage.

[121] : 29. Sep 2002 19:54   
Changed the URLs for Attitude #4 to the ones at and Goin’ 4 Gold.
Added bcn party’10 and Out of Orderia 2002 to the partyscope.

[122] : 29. Sep 2002 22:47   
Regarding ’Attitude’ diskzine. I found it interesting to read. However, about the -awful- tunes in PBC 49, these were old tunes, which I did two or three years. There should hopefully be some better tunes.

[123] : 30. Sep 2002 03:23   
Richard:Age isn’t the issue. It’s comments about the tunes that were used. Don’t judge by what could of been, but what is.

[124] : 30. Sep 2002 06:07   
...and don’t apologise for your creations ;-)

[125] : 30. Sep 2002 18:27   
unless they’re really bad ofcourse

[126] : 30. Sep 2002 18:45   
Nah, be proud of your rubbish! Someone has to define the standards and that means that someone else has to release garbage otherwise we’d never know what was good! =-)

[127] : 30. Sep 2002 20:23   
TMR, word up man! ;-)

[128] : 30. Sep 2002 20:30   
Definition: a production is garbage if and only if it is produced by people who never end up in the charts. :-)

[129] : 30. Sep 2002 21:16   
That must have been an ELITE definition. ;-)

[130] : 30. Sep 2002 23:27   
Puterman is elite enough for me.

[131] : 01. Oct 2002 00:25   
[Looks at puterman] i thought for a couple of minutes how to answer that in a mature and adult way; i gave up. [pokes tongue out and blows raspberry =-]

[132] : 01. Oct 2002 09:44   
I used to be in the charts .. was a long time ago .. 1863 if I remember correctly ..

[133] : 01. Oct 2002 10:43   
that’s pretty awesome, catching cows, drinking whiskey, riding horse compo’s. Man wish i’d been there too

[134] : 01. Oct 2002 10:43   
Yeah, i heard you were getting on a bit... [snigger =-]

[135] : 01. Oct 2002 18:14   
I never caught any cows, a cow caught me .. fortunately we split some time ago. And hey, 150 years is not THAT old!


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